tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post113325755541186593..comments2023-07-18T08:02:47.266-04:00Comments on The Megasometherium Club: Technology, magic, and consciousnessUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-856277014462427332007-07-08T01:45:00.000-04:002007-07-08T01:45:00.000-04:00For information about Magic Tricks OnlineWould you...For information about <A HREF="http://magic-tricks.revealed4u.com/learn-magic-tricks-online.php" REL="nofollow">Magic Tricks Online</A><BR/><BR/>Would you like to learn magic tricks online? I can think of more than a dozen people right now just from the top of my head who would jump at the opportunity to learn magic tricks if it was presented to them...Read the full article at <A HREF="http://magic-tricks.revealed4u.com/learn-magic-tricks-online.php" REL="nofollow">Learn Magic Tricks Online</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-1159954409287962212006-10-04T05:33:00.000-04:002006-10-04T05:33:00.000-04:00You may have thought you knew everything about tec...You may have thought you knew everything about <A HREF="http://aldtechnology.com/" REL="nofollow">technology</A>; just confirm by reading the matter that is found in the following article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-1134419805961054582005-12-12T15:36:00.000-05:002005-12-12T15:36:00.000-05:00Bugger, it's not the difference between science an...Bugger, it's not the difference between science and magic, it's the difference between SF writers and Fantasy writers. The former more understand science or have more of an interest in it, or both. This is not to say that one is any worse or better than the other.<BR/>Neal AsherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-1133559920381182052005-12-02T16:45:00.000-05:002005-12-02T16:45:00.000-05:00Daniel, reading your comments makes me think of th...Daniel, reading your comments makes me think of the part where I said, "anyone looking for gray areas can find plenty in any discussion that mentions consciousness." :)<BR/><BR/>We could specify an exception for one's own body for the purposes of this discussion, since the ability to raise one's hand is not generally seen as magical. But if we want to digress a bit, then yes, ultimately we wind up asking what is the relationship between consciousness and physical matter. The scientific worldview that I've described is grounded in the idea that the universe is made of nothing but matter (AKA materialism), which means that consciousness is just a property of highly complex arrangements of matter. In theory, one might be able to mass-produce such arrangements of matter (although this could lead us to the question of whether it's possible to duplicate quantum states, and then we're getting really far afield).<BR/><BR/>Staying somewhat closer to the original topic, let me suggest that your assertion "You can't decide to raise my hand" is not entirely true. Someone might ask you to do it, and you might do it. It's still your decision, you say? Well, someone might make you think it's your own idea to do it. This is a trivial example of what John Crowley (after Ioan Couliano) describes as intersubjective magic, the ability of one consciousness to compel another. Some of what was once considered magic during the Renaissance was actually subtle psychological manipulation. (Permit me to point out that this can't be mass-produced or automated; it's dependent on the presence of a skilled practitioner.) <BR/><BR/>In <A HREF="http://www.locusmag.com/1999/Issues/03/Stewart.html" REL="nofollow">Sean Stewart's Locus interview</A>, he talked about truths of one, truths of two, and truths of three or more. The last is the external world, and if magic is able to affect this, it might be called objective magic; this, as I have been repeatedly reminded, Does Not Exist. Magic affecting the first two categories might be called subjective and intersubjective magic; it may be meaningful to speak as if they do exist in the real world, but I'm open to argument on the matter.Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00799259633965559067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-1133557259448944802005-12-02T16:00:00.000-05:002005-12-02T16:00:00.000-05:00I agree with David regarding China Miéville's nove...I agree with David regarding China Miéville's novels. While there are a lot of machines in the Bas-Lag novels, I don't think that a consistent physics/thaumaturgy is a high priority in the world-building. And let's be clear: this is not a criticism. I think the novels are terrific. <BR/><BR/>I once asked China about the golem-making that Judah Low does in <I>Iron Council</I>, and he said, "It's less a question of saying 'this is how the universe works' <BR/>than of saying 'this is the way that Judah can do it.'" I think that's consistent with my perspective on the subjective component of magic. In interviews China has talked about how much he's been influenced by Surrealism, and I think that is a good way to understand the world of Bas-Lag. It's filled with incongruous collisions of disparate elements, and asking how they can all be reconciled is less important than it is even in many other fantasy novels.Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00799259633965559067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-1133496152581589182005-12-01T23:02:00.000-05:002005-12-01T23:02:00.000-05:00When you start getting into torque, probability mi...When you start getting into torque, probability mining, Weavers, and whatever the hell the Tesh were using in <I>Iron Council,</I> I'm not sure Miéville's stuff is really all that scientific — it's got a veneer of sciencey stuff, sure, but kind of in the way that traditional fantasy has a veneer of feudalism without the economics to back it up.<BR/><BR/>(Which is not in any way a slag against Miéville's stuff, I should add. And I think he's on record as being one of those folks who — unlike Ted, I expect — considers science fiction a subgenre of fantasy.)<BR/><BR/>Is de Lint postindustrial, or does he just transplant nostalgia for the preindustrial to a contemporary setting? (Honest question. I've never been able to finish anything by de Lint.)David Moleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07334889574898460118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-1133484643810372902005-12-01T19:50:00.000-05:002005-12-01T19:50:00.000-05:00Eh, I dunno, Anonymous. If the discussion that Ted...Eh, I dunno, Anonymous. If the discussion that Ted's started here is to be argued out in definitional terms, do you really think it's all that valuable--or accurate--to equate "weird science" with "post-industrial fantasies?" For that matter, don't you think the latter term is a bit anemic for describing Miéville (note the <I>accent aigu</I> in the spelling, btw)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5666825.post-1133476205292488732005-12-01T17:30:00.000-05:002005-12-01T17:30:00.000-05:00Hm. So, where does this leave the weird science st...Hm. So, where does this leave the weird science stories, such as the post-industrial fantasies of China Mieville or Charles de Lint?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com